Blog Entry

Submitted by Darrent (not verified) on 28 August 2007 - 12:19am.

The product looks brilliant BUT
Novell has a long and sad history of abandoning applications after one or two years (oracle, NPS & eXtend Director, WebSphere etc).
What assurance do i have that the customers will not be left high and dry once we go 1 or 2 years through a major implementation???

Submitted by Eric (not verified) on 28 August 2007 - 5:51am.

Is the interactive Flash demo that was promised for May available yet?

Submitted by Eric (not verified) on 28 August 2007 - 2:15pm.

I 2nd that! We've been waiting for the Flash demo, but a live demo would be even better.

Submitted by PeterVL (not verified) on 29 August 2007 - 8:58pm.

of course it is not native groupwise ... please.

I just would like it to work, to be able to query for GW accounts and reliably send email. It would be nice if the IM and presence stuff leveraged the existing GW tech, but my guess is that it is the GW stuff that is going to go away, so that it can integrate with what this brings.

I third the call for a live demo .... and please, a screen shot gallery would be very nice, too ...

Peter

Submitted by FlyingGuy (not verified) on 29 August 2007 - 11:20pm.

I would also ask if access control is integrated with E-Directory or is this just some product that everyone in the board room thought was "Ohh wow!" and its just a bit of software that is not integrated into NDS, The server file System, Printing etc. ?

Submitted by FlyingGuy (not verified) on 30 August 2007 - 6:19pm.

So it looks like I pretty much have my answer by the lack of answers, so all I can conclude is that:

1. No GroupWise Integration, not even address books.
2. No NDS integration
3, No file server integration.
4. No printing integration.

I **really** hope I am wrong.

But I am pretty sure they will delete this post as well.

Submitted by FlyingGuy (not verified) on 30 August 2007 - 10:27pm.

My guess is its not integrated with much of anything. I read through the product guide and it mentions *nothing* about any of Novell's infrastructure products.

I have clients who have blackberries that are being fed by either a blackberry server or from companies like Notify Link, and they rely of getting timely information from their GroupWise system.

From some quick start guides on CoolSolutions, I *think* you can get it to authenticate via your NDS system, but only via LDAP.

I think that this product has potential, but sadly it seems as though Novell is putting this thing out there, with little or no thought about integrating it into Novells current product line.

Submitted by Dean Lythgoe (not verified) on 2 September 2007 - 2:52pm.

We do not have a demo site. But this is a great idea to expose more people to the feature set and to begin sharing ideas on how the technology could be implemented in an organization or enterprise. We do have an internal demo site and one we plan on including our partners.

During development, a demo site can be a two-edge sword. Great for feedback, but difficult for people to see past the short-comings of an unfinished product. Once we ship the product, a demo site makes a lot more sense.

An example of users having a difficult time seeing the end product when introduced in a 'development' stage.....

I remember when we introduced the 'Home Folder' in GroupWise 7. We really needed a broader opinion base to finalize the feature. We thought we could just go to BETA in its current state and the BETA sites would 'help' us smooth out the rough edges. We must have done something wrong :) The BETA sites were ruthless in their criticism and hated the feature and its presentation. We ended up engineering an entire administration interface to appease the critics. In the end, the most criticism we have received is 'Why isn't the Home Folder' in WebAccess and the Linux/Mac Client?'. It has become one of our best features and the basis for many of our product messages. Many in the beta process recommended we drop the feature all together. Now I wonder if anyone even uses the 'Administration' pieces we added to control it?

How to balance early exposure and feedback with an unfinished product? Demos and demo/beta sites seem to be the industry norm, but they are not without their challenges....

Anyway....I'll keep you posted!

Submitted by Dean Lythgoe (not verified) on 2 September 2007 - 3:03pm.

Integration is not a major focus of this first release of Novell Teaming + Conferencing. Those who are expecting that will see improvements in future releases.. However, integration is a key to the longer term strategy of the product and especially integration with GroupWise.

In Bonsai, we plan to have a few Teaming integration points from the Windows Client.

- Teaming folders in your folder tree will display the teaming contents in a web page on the right

- Teaming Calendars will show up in GroupWise as a sub-calendar

- Every contact will have a field to store a URL to their personal WorkSpace. Navigating that link will bring them to Novell Teaming

In addition, there are several 'natural' integrations that simply occur with any email system. If you have GroupWise, those 'natural' integrations will work just as well as if you had any other email system. Many are based on standards, like SMTP, ICS, WebDAV, etc.

Submitted by Dean Lythgoe (not verified) on 2 September 2007 - 3:11pm.

We have discussed, designed, planned and argued about all of the integrations that can and need to be done. We appreciate the input and comments in this forum - it adds to the overall knowledge base.

We understand that integration will be key for many of our current customers and we will charge down that path. However, Novell also recognizes the need to get a product to market and those demands usually compete with each other.

Time vs Resources vs Feature set - the most recognized engineering debate!!

Submitted by Jeff May (not verified) on 4 September 2007 - 10:29pm.

Bill,

Then please answer the questions! Is he right on his assumptions or not? Stop being coy with your lack of response. Stuff like this is infuriating.

Submitted by Jeff May (not verified) on 5 September 2007 - 4:10am.

Here's another gem that shows Novell appears to be ready to sell off GroupWise (a la Blum's recommendation):

"IBM and Novell have announced an integrated open collaboration client for SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop that includes IBM Lotus Notes, IBM Lotus Sametime and IBM productivity tools to deliver advanced email and calendar capabilities, unified communication & collaboration and lightweight yet powerful word processing, spreadsheet, and presentation capabilities with OpenDocument Format support."

If nothing else, it helps us with our budgeting decision on whether or not to keep GroupWise after the next upgrade cycle. We've been getting heat as it is to move to Exchange, and this really pushes it. Thanks for undermining my support for GroupWise and helping the MS folks make their case.

Submitted by Ian (not verified) on 5 September 2007 - 12:27pm.

He didn't, it's there.

Submitted by Roger (not verified) on 5 September 2007 - 1:42pm.

Has anyone at Novell validated this blogging tool against IE rather than just FireFox? The reported issues regarding deleted posts maybe due to the fact that half the time under IE the screen is not displayed correctly, I see at times

1) Empty areas where the original subject was posted.
2) Large empty areas under the original subject as IE places all comments below the right panel.
3) Lost comments that then appear in the future as other comments are posted
4) Broken comment entry form that is wider than the screen width - changing the screen width if IE corrects this until text is entered.

There are also issues that show up on the prblog/CTO pages.

Roger

Submitted by Martin Buckley (not verified) on 5 September 2007 - 5:50pm.

Jeff

Comments go into the moderation queue. We don't generally delete comments unless they are blatent spame or flamebait.

Here's the policy: http://www.novell.com/coolblogs/?p=427

Submitted by Dean Lythgoe (not verified) on 7 September 2007 - 2:14pm.

Peter,

I believe that Level 1 and Level 2 support will be handled by Novell and Level 3 support will escalate directly to our partner - SiteScape.

Dean

Submitted by Roger (not verified) on 8 September 2007 - 5:54am.

Martin can I make a few comments

Much of the feedback you are receiving is coming from the fact that Novell has not yet detailed the history behided NT+C and the third parties that Novell is working with to bring this project to release. At the moment many comments are viewing NT+C as an inhouse solution that is providing no support for any of Novell's other products, while the truth is that much of the product has a general focus because its written by Liferay or SiteScape for a general market.

At the same time Novell is going to have to be far more open about when it expects to deliver additional intergration. At the moment NT+C seems to have less Novell centric focus than the old portal server product! When does Novell expect to releases/upgrade the portlets from NPS/Director for use in NT+C?

Its also likely that Novell is going to have to change the way in which it releases things. Most of the time Novell updates its products every 12-18 months, for a portal environment there needs to be a steady stream of modules rather than 20 once a year.

One of the biggest problems I am facing with NT+C is the results of the reviews when they come out. I'm almost sure that NT+C will be compaired to Sharepoint. MS has done a wonderful job of tying their whole product set into Sharepoint (at a high cost) while NT+C currently delivers no such Novell intergration.

Roger

Submitted by FlyingGuy (not verified) on 9 September 2007 - 7:46pm.

Will there be specific NDS integration *before* you ship it?

I have to *explain* what i mean by file server integration??? Ok, I will bite, lets see here. NDS provides certain user & group rights to connect to various services hosted by a Netware/OES file server that is running NDS/NCP and will provide those services to said user. Does this thing support those functions when its running on a OES server? Can someone from their web browser see files on the server?

Printing Integration...

Hows is printing supported on this product when running from a web browser? lets say for sake of argument that Sally is sitting in an internet Cafe in Fiji because Sally was lucky enough to go on Vacation, yet something pesky popped up and she has to deal with it. So Sally goes to the nearest internet cafe and jumps on the Teaming Portal. Sally does what she needs to do, but Sally's boss Suzy is in the San Diego office. Now Suzy is a bit of a luddite and does not as yet use this product, but needs that bit of paper like yesterday. Can Sally then from her browser select the NDPS printer sitting just outside her bosses office and shoot a copy out for him?

NDSP is great technology and this is why products need to be integrated into all of Novell's tech.

As to GroupWise:

1. Will the address book IN Teaming BE the Groupwise address book that contains all our contacts?

2. How about e-mails sent via Teaming, will those show up in my Sent items folder?

3 So are you saying that the Calender will simply be reflected in GroupWise? Is it read Only, If I make an appointment in the "sub-calender" will it show up in the Teaming Calender or do we now have two separate calenders?

4. I am assuming there is some sort of "Busy Search" calender functionality in Teaming, but does that search my main GW appointment calender?

My feeling from everything ai have read is you are creating two systems that cannot possibly rationalized with each other to eliminate duplicate work, appointment collisions, E-Mail duplication, etc. etc.

How do you answer these things?

Submitted by FlyingGuy (not verified) on 10 September 2007 - 8:52am.

Does this mean we pay the 400.00 or 500.00 or whatever it is, to talk to a script reader in India, get frustrated, get transfered to Provo ( if we are lucky ) and if we get frustrated there, we actually get people who understand the software?

Submitted by PeterVL (not verified) on 14 September 2007 - 6:34pm.

Despite the other comments that have been negative ... this actually is a pretty nice start in integration, I think. A small start, and only a start .... but it is something we can offer that we don't have now. And Sharepoint in a GW shop does not integrate even this much with GW, so ....

I really do wish though that you guys would get more aggressive ... your release schedules seem to imply that everything is going fine and there is no urgency. That is hugely wrong. a year is A LONG LONG TIME when you are behind and falling further behind every min.

GW and NT+c could be really really significant boost for Novell, but things have got to start happening faster.

P

Submitted by D Lee (not verified) on 20 September 2007 - 12:58am.

For all you Virtual Office users....

No Virtual office in OES2.... No new updates

You must now PAY for this instea.... Personally I am leaving all this Novell stuff behind

Submitted by Dean Lythgoe (not verified) on 25 September 2007 - 7:45am.

Jeff,

These are obviously tough questions and do not have easy answers. There are technical as well as business reasons for every situation. The bottom line is: Novell is committed to their customers, products, partners and support. We will continue to work very hard to improve the products and integrate them from a technical perspective and leverage the business and customer relationships. In a perfect world, there would be unlimited resources and obvious business advantages. However, as you know, there are challenges, opportunities, and trade-offs.

- Leveraging Novell's current product base is one of our objectives. It is sometimes easier said then done.
- Integrating with eDirectory (NDS) is a good option. Integrating with a wider range of directories is arguably a better option.
- There are support concerns. Novell is aware of the issues and the NTS team is working very hard to grow the expertise and to provide the level of support that is expected.
- We are adding several Linux and Mac client features that match the windows side including Home Folder, Navigation Bar, POP/IMAP support etc. etc.

I wish I could answer all of your questions to your satisfaction. This is a great place to share information and to get insight.

I hope I have shared something of value.

Submitted by Dean Lythgoe (not verified) on 25 September 2007 - 8:34am.

Bill,

Sorry for the NDS question - I just wanted to make sure I was not missing something obvious :)

Novell Teaming is not going to have the things you are requesting in this first release. As the product matures and we align our release cycles more and more of these integrations will become part of both products. I guess the only real answer I can give is: Have patience - we are working to create better solutions.

I hope I can convince you to look at what is IN the product and how it can help your enterprise. All products evolve as they develop. None of them have all of the features right out the gate. However, Novell Teaming has a lot of GREAT stuff. Glass half empty or half full? Although there are some obvious short comings, there are still a lot of very useful and beneficial features and functionality.

Thanks for the discussion!

Submitted by Flyingguy (not verified) on 25 September 2007 - 9:05pm.

Anyone else just feel the kiss of death for ANYTHING Netware related?

"- Leveraging Novell’s current product base is one of our objectives. It is sometimes easier said then done."

Understood as "Look we are Linux guys, we don't do Netware. NDS or that thing called Groupwise".

- Integrating with eDirectory (NDS) is a good option. Integrating with a wider range of directories is arguably a better option.

Understood as "Yup we are going straight for Active Directory, I mean we made a great deal with Microsoft".

Its a dark day.

Submitted by Alan Pearson (not verified) on 28 September 2007 - 11:03am.

I had really hoped that NT+C would integrate with the complete Novell Enterprise Solution too, Groupwise, Edirectory, File + Print.
It was on my buy next list after my ZenWorks rollout....

This has been a shock to find that it doesn't....

Just as one poster said, everything collaboration related is coming from GW... not to integrate with this at a core level is just crazy.
It should also be able to integrate with existing file shares and permissions as defined by eDirectory.

This is all coming from a Linux guy who just recently discovered the beauty of Novell, Edirectory, OES & Groupwise.

I think (hope) Dean may have got the point though....

Submitted by JohnD (not verified) on 22 October 2007 - 5:41pm.

In addition to being a CNE I'm a CLP - Notes is a great add to this platform. It has an installed base equal to Exchange, is far more secure, and has TONS of development possibilities that Exchange can't touch.
I'm well aware of issues that Notes has had in the past, I would recommend that people take a look at the product now.
It's not perfect, but neither is Exchange, and I've NEVER had a virus run through a Domino system. I even tried to develop a virus for a test Domino system to which I had Admin rights - couldn't make one work.
I have nothing against Groupwise it's not bad for small shops, but I doubt that anyone can get it on par with the big boys at this point.

Submitted by Hans Bloupot (not verified) on 1 November 2007 - 3:36am.

Hi,

Teaming + Conferencing looks great. We're very interested in the Teaming side and I'm discussing it with our board in a few weeks time. At GWAVACon Berlin I followed most sessions about this project and the one that struck me most was Connect Users with Novell Teaming + Conferencing by Phil Karren. Slides are not yet available, but would help me a lot to convince our management about the benefits of Teaming. Could these slides be made available to the general public and me in particular.

Best wishes,

Hans

Submitted by Dean Lythgoe (not verified) on 1 November 2007 - 6:44am.

From the Product Manager:

There is SLA and ALA pricing. SLA is a "normal" subscription price. ALA is buy it with a discount, equivalent to VLA-9. This will show up on the ALA price list labeled as ALA. The SLA and ALA pricing has only been up for a few weeks.

Dean