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GroupWise: Retiring technologies…

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6 September 2011 - 1:53pm
Submitted by: dlythgoe

(View Disclaimer)

As products evolve and technologies change, we sometimes have to sunset some technologies and capabilities in order to stay current, sustain maintainability or streamline engineering efficiencies.

Over the course of a product's life cycle, many things can and do change. New hardware, new platforms, better tools and even changing markets or customer needs. Any software product with a robust history like GroupWise will experience these changes.

Sometimes the changes are obvious and well received. Other times, the changes may feel forced, unplanned or too abrupt. I thought it would be worthwhile to discuss the changes that are coming, or that have already come. It is about awareness, about planning and about discussing the logic behind the decisions.

Background

To provide some additional context for this discussion, I think it is worthwhile to explain some of the drivers around technology life cycle.

Software Tools - in order to build a software product, you must rely on technologies which are provided by 3rd-party companies. We use development tools from Microsoft, Sun, IBM, Oracle, Flexera, Apple, open source providers, etc. These tools are a tremendous asset that help speed development and provide consistency across different software developers. However, as these underlying technologies move through their life cycle, they can force change in our products.

In GroupWise 8, for example, we had to completely revamp our Windows install programs to move to the latest versions of InstallShield. In this process, some capabilities of our install were lost while gaining new capabilities. We also had to move to a new version of the Windows compiler – which while largely a major benefit, also had a small downside.

Sometimes, these 3rd-party providers go out of business, change business models, sell their technology, change their support models or simply discontinue offering their solutions.

MAPI (Messaging Application Programming Interface) is probably one of our best examples. In the 90's, Microsoft introduced what the industry believed was a open standard. We built our Address Book, Name Completion and Desktop Integration solutions on this technology - as did many companies. Microsoft later decided to no longer allow 3rd parties redistribution rights to this subsystem. We still, in some very rare cases, have to install an older version of MAPI to ensure GroupWise works.

What's NOT in Ascot

  • NetWare - The NetWare platform will not be supported in the upcoming release of GroupWise Ascot. NetWare has entered into the extended support of its life cycle. NetWare has provided great functionality, stability and reliability for our customers. While leaving NetWare and some of its strengths, the move to OES provides a bright future for our customers. Broader hardware vendor support, a wide variety of open source tools and utilities, stronger virtualization options and world-class support. OES, SLES and Windows are all supported server platforms for Ascot.
  • GWINTER - The WebAccess architecture was in need of a significant overhaul. The solution that started out as a 'demo' had evolved into a less efficient strategy. In an effort to modernize our web solutions, provide features more often and significantly simplify our installation and configuration, the GWINTER agent was removed from the GroupWise product. While some flexibility in data center design will be lost with this change, the long term maintainability, quicker feature development and more efficient traffic on the wire were seen as obvious advantages to the current methodology.
  • WebPublisher - The WebPublisher technology will no longer be part of the GroupWise family. As we position the product for a much stronger web presence, we needed to significantly update our web architecture to facilitate more rapid product cycles, easier administrator roll outs and more efficiency in our development process. WebPublisher was a byproduct of this architectural change to remove the GWINTER agent.

    We recognize that some of our customers rely heavily on this part of the product. As we transition our Document Management capability to Novell Vibe, we expect to replace the WebPublisher capability with Novell Vibe solutions.

  • SNMP - Simple Network Management Protocol (SNMP) has been a part of GroupWise for some time. As a standard, it is broadly utilized and very well understood. As we transition to 64-bit solutions, continuing to support this functionality on all platforms has been frustrating. Linux has been a major sticking point.

    The SNMP daemon is loaded by the OS. It loads our code as a dynamic library, a .so on Linux. The .so that is loaded is dependent on a 64-bit GroupWise engine. The .so (Dynamic Shared Object in Linux) talks to the agent via HTTP on Linux and via SharedMem on Windows and Netware. The missing piece here is the 64-bit GroupWise engine. Since GroupWise agents are still 32-bit, and there is no 32-bit SNMP .so provided on a 64-bit platform, the SNMP functionality is lost in this case. Once we get 64-bit GroupWise agents, we will be able to provide SNMP support on a 64-bit Linux platform.

  • Mac / Linux Client - We will not ship a Mac/Linux Client as part of the Ascot download. We have not made any changes to the Mac/Linux client for Ascot. You can continue to use the GroupWise 8 version of the Mac/Linux client against an Ascot POA. If you need to download this solution please look in the GroupWise 8 download section. You will not find this client in the Ascot download area.

    To be clear with Mac support today, in Ascot and moving forward.

    1. We have a Mac solution - the Mac/Linux Client. You will continue to have this exact solution going forward - whether you update your environment to Ascot or not.

    2. You also have a Web solution that will continue to get 'better' with Ascot and is available on the Mac.

    3. There will be TWO solutions for the Apple iPad - DataSync and in Ascot - Web templates.

    We are doing a lot with Apple and will continue to expand and grow our support of this platform.

Changing/Different/In-Transition

  • Document Management - Document Management is still a solution we ship and support as part of GroupWise. This functionality will continue to be available in Ascot with the exception of the WebPublisher functionality communicated above. We openly admit we have not made any changes to the GroupWise DMS features or functionality for several releases of the product. We also did not make any significant changes to DMS in Ascot. The good thing is that software, or code, does not simply wear out. Code does not get tired or lose its usefulness as some may want you to believe. In fact, the long history of GroupWise, its code and its engineers, is what gives GroupWise its greatest strength.

    Our strategy has been to provide document management, document collaboration and social context for our DMS customers through Novell Vibe. As Novell Vibe matures and gains the strengths GroupWise already enjoys, it will become our document, file, attachment and social solution. We will continue to integrate these products together and expect to accelerate that plan in 2012.

  • 64-bit - We had announced and expected to deliver 64-bit ONLY agents in GroupWise Ascot. We then planned to deliver 64-bit agents as part of a tech preview about the same time Ascot shipped. Neither of these plans played out. We are still committed to 64-bit agents and we will deliver them as soon as possible. GroupWise Ascot will have only 32-bit agents that can run on both 32-bit AND 64-bit platforms. As GroupWise is 'disk bound', there are not a lot of perceivable advantages to a 64-bit solution. Nevertheless, we will be delivering 64-bit solutions soon and will consider 64-bit ONLY as part of Windermere. One of the challenges with this transition has been our ability to support SNMP on 64-bit Linux platforms.

    Having a lot of platforms that your product runs on is a huge advantage, but it also carries a significant cost. The largest cost is in QA validation. In order to ensure our customers have a robust solution on every platform, every test case and test scenario must be run on every supported platform. Offering 32-bit and 64-bit options - although flexible and customer friendly - can also be cost prohibitive. It takes longer to deliver a solution, it is costly to support/maintain, and it is difficult to ensure consistency in all parts of the solution.

  • Exchange and Notes Gateways - The Microsoft Exchange and Lotus Notes gateways are no longer supported by Novell. They were never delivered with the GroupWise product, but were always a separate download/deliverable. We have discontinued support for both of these technologies and we no longer have engineers working on these solutions.

    We are, however, working on a new GroupWise/Exchange co-existence solution that will allow GroupWise and Exchange to exist side by side within the same enterprise. There will be a session at BrainShare in October that discusses this solution and we will have a station in the solutions lab. This new product will allow 3 principal integration points.

    1. Mail/Appointment interchange through SMTP.
    2. System Address Book interchange through IDM.
    3. Cross system Free/Busy interchange through a new middleware technology.

    One more reason to come see us at Brainshare!

The Future

There are many technologies within GroupWise that will eventually go the way of VHS. As part of some upcoming releases (post Ascot), expect changes in many or all of these areas. MAPI and the stand alone Address Book, View Designer, ConsoleOne and eDirectory. Some of these technologies, we will simply remove from the product (MAPI, ConsoleOne), while others we will either transition to new solutions - ViewDesigner to XML, or simply add options like supporting Active Directory as well as eDirectory.


Disclaimer: As with everything else at Cool Solutions, this content is definitely not supported by Novell (so don't even think of calling Support if you try something and it blows up).

It was contributed by a community member and is published "as is." It seems to have worked for at least one person, and might work for you. But please be sure to test, test, test before you do anything drastic with it.




User Comments

mww's picture

Linux client

Submitted by mww on 8 September 2011 - 8:10am.

As someone that runs linux as my main desktop for work and home I can say that I do not miss the Groupwise client for linux.

It looked ugly and lacked features that I wanted.

But I'm quite happy with the Groupwise SOAP connector for Evolution.

Evolution provides better integration with my desktop and has features that even the Windows Groupwise client is missing.

So I would suggest that Novell start positioning the Evolution client as the linux replacement and continue to develop the connector (which does see updates a few times a year). That way your not "abandoning linux" but rather integrating with native linux tools.

The only item I still want in evolution is for groupwise message tracking (ie the ability to see the sent item properties if it has been read, deleted etc).

So theres my thoughts. And btw the current Ascot webaccess is great! We have been running it for several weeks and it might just make me abandon any client.

jmarton's picture

DMS

Submitted by jmarton on 8 September 2011 - 1:15pm.

We don't have many DMS users here, but those who use it do use it very heavily. This in fact has been a pain point since Microsoft has never extended ODMA capabilities to Excel which in turn causes frustrations integrating Excel with GroupWise.

That being said, the idea of Vibe being the future of DMS from Novell doesn't sound like a bad idea. But here's a big question which I've not yet heard anyone address: what's the migration strategy for existing GWDMS users to get those docs migrated to Vibe DMS? And will there be a way of integrating MS Office with Vibe, perhaps in a way similar to how those apps integrate with SharePoint?

FlyingGuy's picture

They don't have one

Submitted by FlyingGuy on 8 September 2011 - 6:45pm.

- News at 11

dlythgoe's picture

Re: DMS

Submitted by dlythgoe on 9 September 2011 - 4:35pm.

Joe,

Great question. We put together a TID on how to do this a while ago and we will work to improve this capability and migration.

I realize that this only meets some of the need. This is a start.

TID 7008551 How to migrate documents from a GroupWise library into Teaming / Vibe.

It states:

There is very elegant and simple way how to achieve this goal. What you will need is following:

1. On GroupWise site you will need to enable Teaming integration. This can be configured by C1 in Client Options | Environment | Teaming tab. For more configuration details either read help from C1 or consult online GroupWise 8 documentation.

2. Login into GroupWise mailbox that has enabled Teaming integration. This will provide you with extra Teaming folders. If you authenticate to your Teaming account, you get displayed all folders from your personal Teaming workspace, among other Teaming stuff.

3. Set a (Windows) GroupWise client folder view to display both, your GroupWise and also Teaming folders.

4. Now you can find all static document references of your documents that you have published in a GroupWise library. Select one of these published documents and drag-and-drop it into any of Teaming folders.

5. If you login now into Teaming account via web browser you will find "migrated" document from GWDMS into your teaming folder.

Dean

FlyingGuy's picture

Stop telling us about....

Submitted by FlyingGuy on 8 September 2011 - 6:56pm.

the stupidity, incompetence, lack of understanding, naivety and just outright cluelessness of those who have hopefully been shown the door.

And start telling us that the new king does indeed have some clothes and what they are going to do about the bad decisions that the previous jester(s) made.

Dean, those qualities are not endearing, cute, aw shucks or any of those things. They simply show why many of us have and many of us are ready to give up the fight. We tell you what our clients are asking for and you do exactly the opposite, at least up until now. You will get a very tiny amount of slack since you guys were acquired.

But if you don't start saying something about the next version and start saying it PDQ more and more GroupWise installations are going to be drop kicked to the curb and Novell will have no one but itself to blame.

dlythgoe's picture

Re: Stop

Submitted by dlythgoe on 13 September 2011 - 8:49pm.

I realize you want action and answers. Our first installment in our messaging is GroupWise Ascot. I can promise lots of things, I would rather communicate when things are further down the path.

My attempt at humor does not sound like it went over well with you. Humor is sometimes difficult in the written form. It sounded better as I typed it. I was not trying to be cute - just trying to emphasize that the opportunities with Mac and our customers with Mac installations is completely understood.

To be clear with Mac support today, in Ascot and moving forward.

1. We have a Mac solution - the Mac/Linux Client. You will continue to have this exact solution going forward - whether you update your environment to Ascot or not.

2. You also have a Web solution that will continue to get 'better' with Ascot and is available on the Mac.

3. There will be TWO solutions for the Apple iPad - DataSync and in Ascot - Web templates.

We are doing a lot with Apple and will continue to expand and grow our support of this platform.

I have removed my attempt at humor from the main blog post and have added the content from this comment into the main blog post.

Dean

Bob-O-Rama's picture

So If Novell Made Cars...

Submitted by Bob-O-Rama on 10 September 2011 - 9:59pm.

"To make it easier for us to manufacture and add features our cars, we are making the engine blocks out of plastic. Consequently, you can no longer drive your car in Reverse. Frankly, how many miles did you ever drive in reverse anyway? Like 0.001% of the time? See, you don't need to go in reverse, so our new plastic car doesn't do that any more."

-- Bob

FlyingGuy's picture

!!! ROFLMAO !!!

Submitted by FlyingGuy on 12 September 2011 - 10:40am.

Hmmmm read /. much do ya?

Yeah and pretty soon it will be like Jaguar, owned by India!

urbanbuda's picture

The Future

Submitted by urbanbuda on 12 September 2011 - 4:20am.

I can see why a lot of this will not be included as most is technology no longer in use, although reliable. A little shocked that the MAC/Linux client got no development time. But we see a lot of things that won't be in ASCOT, more importantly what will be in ASCOT.

Bob

FlyingGuy's picture

Don't you know, its ALL about...

Submitted by FlyingGuy on 12 September 2011 - 10:44am.

Web 2.0 baby!

The browser is the end all be all! All hail the mighty and completely broken browser.

jlodom's picture

Transitional Releases

Submitted by jlodom on 12 September 2011 - 10:25am.

Dean,

Would it be fair to call Ascot and Windermere transitional releases?

The actual advancements in Ascot seem to be fairly small relative to the entire GroupWise feature set -- the biggest changes being to calendaring and WebAccess, so far as I can tell. The biggest changes announced for Windermere involve the new administration tool and the option to use Active Directory. Since you will be removing quite a few technologies in the next two releases, it seems that development is doing a lot of architectural work on the product (at the very least, that work has to be done to accommodate the functionality of the removed products and to support the changes required by Active Directory and the removal of C1).

We see this pattern quite a bit in the wild. Those of us working extensively with OS X have seen it especially, given Apple's tendency to deprecate a piece of functionality in one release and entirely replace it with something else in the next (and, of course, Snow Leopard was entirely about this sort of work). Given your comments in previous posts, that seems to be the sort of thing going on.

Which leads to the next question: What is now slated for Windemere and beyond? And given your recent post, what do you expect the development cycle to look like in the future -- will you be going to the Vibe model of more minor releases, or will you be speeding up the existing model, or will you be releasing at set intervals focusing on very specific feature sets?

dlythgoe's picture

Re: New Releases...

Submitted by dlythgoe on 13 September 2011 - 8:23pm.

Great observations and questions.

We will be moving to more frequent product releases....although it is as much a perception and communication issue as it is reality. We actually have released new functionality in every release we have done over the last 3 years. GroupWise 8, SP1, SP2 all had features and stability changes. Although not large architectural changes, enhancements nonetheless.

We will continue this model, but with more, new capability with each release. We expect and are planning to release roughly once every year with Ascot being the first installment of that cycle..

We are not completely ready to detail all of the things planned for Winderemere, but will be talking about it a fair amount at BrainShare in October and over the next 6 months more concrete plans will be revealed.

Probably not all of the information you wanted - but we will continue to use this forum to share those details as appropriate.

Dean

vgalino's picture

Collaboration

Submitted by vgalino on 12 September 2011 - 11:58am.

Hello
The Groupwise Client for mac and linux its a product buyed to another company. Its a Java solution.

Clients on the collaboration space are demanding solutions they work and all the platforms.

I am agree its not necessary to add the client for a Mac Computer, but you need to add some synchronization with this systems

Like :
Evolution connector for Groupwise (via SOAP)
or
Syncronice Mail Contacts and Calendar with Groupwise DIRECTLY on Mac

I Think you need to add something on the conferencing space on the Groupwise solution. Competence are high and they have good solutions.

I Need to buy to my clients they need, and i hope Novell need to hear the users.

Regards
Victor

dlythgoe's picture

Re: Collaboration...

Submitted by dlythgoe on 13 September 2011 - 8:25pm.

Victor,

Thank you for your feedback and suggestions. We are considering many of these ideas.

Dean

dlyle's picture

No Mac client

Submitted by dlyle on 12 September 2011 - 2:09pm.

Are you kidding me? I'm an educational client and we are migrating rapidly to a Mac platform. This is causing a great deal of our own "change" - some good, some not so good. However, the woeful GW client for Mac is making my pitch to stay with Group Wise more difficult. To see that there is no client for Mac coming makes me think Novell has abandoned the educational market altogether.

jlodom's picture

Reserve Judgement Until Ascot and Windermere

Submitted by jlodom on 12 September 2011 - 4:48pm.

Dean seems to be putting great faith in the improvements to WebAccess, which will also include a great deal of enhancements for iOS. Let's not judge too harshly until we take that client for a spin. It will probably exceed the capabilities of the current Mac client and might turn out to be the preferred means of using GroupWise. When Windermere lands the admin interface will be web-based and so you'll be able to administer GroupWise from a Mac, which is a great improvement from ConsoleOne land.

Even if they started today, it would take a release cycle beyond Windermere to write a good Cocoa-based Mac client, and that's a skill set currently absent in GroupWise engineering. Let's let the feature pipe for Windermere and Ascot clear before we push on this front again. If you read between the lines, there is some movement on the back-end, but I think it's clear those two releases have to land before any Mac action can happen.

FlyingGuy's picture

Oh Really?

Submitted by FlyingGuy on 13 September 2011 - 10:22am.

For SEVEN YEARS we have been begging for parity only to have those pleas fall on deaf ears. The old management crew thought Java was the END ALL BE ALL of the computer world and we ended up with Console One and the miserable Mac/Linux clients because just like we all told them, java is a lousy and hopeless desktop language and platform.

We pointed them to various libraries that can make C or C++ truly X-Plat, eg: wxWidgets and Qt which both give you native UI's on ALL three major platforms including OSX, Windows and Linux ( on either Gnome or KDE ) and one again we were ignored.

There are those of us that have volunteered to write code for them to facilitate moving this program in that direction. Those of us that have volunteered to help get the API's sorted out, but again we were ignored.

Now it is ALL HAIL the mighty Web 2.0. The ONLY way they are going to get hit the road access using a web interface is by making you install 14 layers of software, including an http stack, some database stack and god alone knows what kind of Java and tomcat stack on top of that , when it is ALL built into the GroupWise client. Do you really want to have all that junk running as opposed to the single GW client that is very fast and does all of that out of the box? Really?

If they had listened we would have had an x-plat client with complete parity by now instead we have this broken release and some vague notion of "well if might be different" in the next release.

So you want us to be patient and cut them some slack?

My patience is as close to being at and end as it ever has been with Novell and the amount of slack I am going to cut them is going to be very, very, VERY damn small. If Novell is going to be a Linux company they need to take some cues from Open Office, take a class, learn some lessons and just stop being so bull headed and get with the business of being a Linux Company. Yes they must cater to Windows and there is no getting around that, but they need to be smart about it and start getting on the x-plat bandwagon with the client and stop drinking the cool-aid that the browser is the ULTIMATE application container because at its most fundamental it is broken in that regard.

dlythgoe's picture

We are hiring...

Submitted by dlythgoe on 13 September 2011 - 8:34pm.

We have open positions. Are you looking? Utah is a beautiful place!

We can only move forward...the past is the past. There is probably a fair amount of what 'could have and should have been' in a lot of things...including GroupWise.

My only focus is moving forward and working with customers, partners, engineers and professionals who can be a positive force for the business.

I don't have all of the answers. But I have visited a lot of customers lately and they all want GroupWise and Novell to succeed.

I do too...

Dean

mww's picture

Come on novell. Dont you

Submitted by mww on 13 September 2011 - 12:11pm.

Come on novell. Dont you have a "ban" button ;-)

Just migrate to MS already FG....I'm sure they will be happy to have you in their community.

FlyingGuy's picture

You dont get it...

Submitted by FlyingGuy on 14 September 2011 - 11:25am.

I have been "Bleeding Red" for all of my professional career.

I cut my teeth compsurfig, wsgen'ng, installing VAP's and I don't think there are many people who love Novell more then I do. Did you get that part? I love Novell. They are one of, if not the last, honest software companies around.

I have set rapt listening to Drew Major describe the inner working of the NetWare kernel. I have listened to Ray Norda (rip) talk about his business philosophy and embraced it.

Sadly Novell has had a series of management teams that have failed, just failed and that has lead Novell to the point where it is now.

They have one last chance to be great again, to lead this industry again, to be the Novell that I grew my professional career on.

But to do that they have to be radical, they have to push harder then they ever have before, they have to bring the software up to date at a speed they cannot fathom. It is going to hurt, it is going to hurt a lot but they have to take the pain or they will be liquidated by Attachmate.

They have to fire up the base and the only way that will happen is if they take what they have and execute. They have to fire up the press, they have to get ink, they have to get eyeballs, they have to fire up this industry.

We have to be merciless with the competition. Ray had the right idea with coopitition but his generosity and naivete made him forget to "Trust, but Verify". Now we have our backs to the ropes and we have to come out swinging and swinging hard. We have to go for the knock out because it's the 10th round of a 10 round bout and the judges card says we will lose on a decision. We don't have time to just spar and try and setup the knockout punch, we have to deliver the knockout punch.

vgalino's picture

Agree with FlyingGuy

Submitted by vgalino on 14 September 2011 - 12:45pm.

I Love Novell too.
I Started with Netware 4.11 and when i read how its implemented NDS i think what person or group can do this software¡¡¡

I Train with Novell, i begins with Novell.

Now, its the last round.

If you can get products Like Novell Mobility Pack, stable, work and easy, you are on the right think.

The competence are very strong now. .

See you on Brainshare¡¡¡

Regards
Victor

mww's picture

I do get it

Submitted by mww on 14 September 2011 - 4:25pm.

This will be my last post. So feel free to respond but I will leave it at this.

It is not about how much we love Novell or how bad we want to see it succeed.

My point is that your continual rants are not helpful to Novell nor the community at large. You've been ranting for years now with such regularity but what we have gained? I'm not sure too many decisions are made at novell based on "how would that angry man feel about this? I

The fact is that Novell does listen to some of its customers. We have several coraprate customers (not education) in the 5000+ seats. And what they want is not what you want. They don't care about native clients, offline access or that OES is an "add-on" to linux and not monolithic.

To this specific issue many are telling Novell to provide them with the same experience they use for the rest of their business apps that reside in web browsers only (CRM, BI etc).

That is not to say what you want is "wrong", but you make the fatal mistake that because Novell is not "listening" to what you want that they don't listen to anyone or that everyone wants what you want.

You would do Novell and its community of current and prospective clients a much greater service by sharing your thoughts in a respectful manner to your Novell partner/sales rep and Brainshare speakers.

We all want Novell to succeed. Lets work together for that goal (not against them).

rovabu's picture

GroupWise Win32 client integration

Submitted by rovabu on 16 September 2011 - 6:18am.

Hi Dean,

Please consider bundling Formativ Runtime with the GroupWise Win32 client. We've made and still make numerous GroupWise Windows Client side extensions (UI features and extensions which are not comparible nor possible with DataSync) based on the Formativ Runtime engine.

For us it's the perfect way to show customers that the GroupWise Client is not something dark and arcane from a development and feature perspective. Formativ offers us partners the only viable way to offer multiple stable and manageable extensions for the GroupWise Windows client.

regards,

Roel van Bueren

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