Novell News

73 Comments

1. By:vardhman

   November 19, 2005 5:55 am

   I don't simply get it, You bought SUSE linux and Ximian and now you are changing the core of SUSE the KDE.
   SUSE became famous only for the quality of KDE and its application. Your constant bias towards GNOME is non-understandable. I have worked on both Gnome and KDE projects. One I worked on KDE I decided never going back to the GNomeish apps.
   GNOME is a bad desktop implementation in C, which you are trying your level best to keep competiting with upcoming advanced Desktops and with KDE.

   The whole coding senario for kernel and Desktop environment is different and you can't just ask ppl to do coding in C when they can do it more easily in C++. For kernel it makes sense, coz the number of developer is less and they are mostly very fundo once. But for newbies etc who only want to code and maintain some good Apps, GTK API sucks so much.
   Mono would be a good idea for new apps but KDE should remain default until Mono comes of age. See the quality of apps in Gnome and KDE and ask ppl what they like, or better see the results of Popularity votes for apps.
   I bet if GIMP was written with KDE libs it could have been very very user friendly.
   Just my 2 Cents.
2. By:KDE Feedback

   November 18, 2005 11:03 am

   I run a training course at college for adult education, teaching people basic IT skills. We started on KDE approximately 6 months ago, but switched over to GNOME recently. After several feedback sessions, it became clear that we all felt that KDE had some serious practical issues. We all tried to warm to KDE, but everyone was complaining of the same issues – many people found it to be slow, resource hungry, and unreliable. Everyone found the KDE interface to be confusing and unintuitive. Ater an initial trial period with the GNOME environment, it was almost unanimously(all except 1 person out of 54) passed as being the preferred desktop. GNOME has none of the aforementioned issues, hence our decision to go with GNOME. Novell has made the best choice.
3. By:Duane Fish

   November 18, 2005 1:19 pm

   This has been one of the most informative blogs that I've ever read. Thanks everyone for your input.

   FWIW, when I'd install SUSE in the past, I'd always pick GNOME. I'm using KDE for v10, and haven't had too much trouble so far. I'm sure I'll re-install and put GNOME, to see the difference.

   My biggest concern is getting it to login to the NetWare servers. A functional client that doesn't require a whole lot of tweaking would be nice.
4. By:Ryan Sinn

   November 22, 2005 7:08 am

   Having used both KDE and GNOME over the last eight years. I can honestly say that KDE wins for usability.

   Every time a new version of GNOME is released I try it out, but always find myself going back to KDE.

   I consult to various businesses and when bringing Linux into their office environment I allow them to try a few flavors of Linux to determine what they prefer.

   I usually provide them with discs for OpenSuSE, Debian, Kubuntu, Ubuntu.

   In every company that currently runs Microsoft Windows on the workstations have stated they dislike GNOME. It doesn't make sense to them and it's very "blah." The lack of "roundness" to icons and the lacking uniformity and "common sense" have made it unappealing. They love KDE every time.

   The IT Departments love OpenSuSE's installer and administration tools that JUST WORK above and beyond all the others.

   I honestly still run Debian because I like to have my desktop development environment mimic my servers. I am however running OpenSuSE on my IBM Thinkpad laptop without issue.

   Please stick with KDE. Do not default to GNOME. Work with the KDE development teams to resolve any sticking points you have and bring the great KDE look, feel and functionality to the next level.

   Feel free to contact me with any questions.

   Thank you for your time,

   Ryan Sinn
5. By:Peter

   November 25, 2005 1:54 pm

   ΟΚ, I have read all comments so far.
   I am using Suse at my home pc from ver 6.1. All of them are bought, if someone cares.

   I work on the IT department at the second biggest telco at my country. On my home office I use Suse on 3 different systems (1 headless server, 1 desktop 1 laptop).

   At my office I use WinXP Pro. Now, We try to find out our next desktop OS for the IT department.

   I am responsible for the proposal and for that I run a test program. I asign 1 desktops with KDE and 1 with GNOME to each personel for 3 weeks.
   The tests are over. Here are the results:

   90% of the personel preferes KDE
   10% preferes GNOME because they already using it at SUN (yes they are the sysadmins!)

   no crashes on major softwares/desktop for 3 weeks for KDE users.

   More than 20 (still!) open tickets for support regarding the GNOME desktop.

   A lot of complains about usagility, fonts (no we are not using the simple latins…), printouts, hardware support etc…

   Our choice was OpenSuse or Suse Pro. The IT manager put on hold the migration after the announcemnet. He prefers to stay at WinXP than to migrate to a "buggy" desktop…
6. By:Peter

   November 25, 2005 2:06 pm

   I long time ago, I made the "migration" to Suse linux, mainly because it's hardware support.

   I tried GNOME a lot time ago, I decided that it wasn't for me. I liked it's look, but I did not liked the fact that each application was a new story.

   Thus, I stayed with KDE from version 1.1.
   When Novell bought SUSE I know that I had to find another distro. It doesn't make sense to own GNOME and sell KDE!

   I already try KUmbuntu, since KDE is the future. BTW, I still wait for a new European distribution that will take Suse's place.

   Thus, purcharging Suse 10 Pro was my last contact with Novell and Suse, I suppose. I want KDE adn really the excuses of Novell are nothing.

   For the visitor on comment 51:
   Well, my girfriend knows nothing but Windows. She worked on my KDE without noticing anything unusuall, while I was triyng to fix the fonts on my laptop (FC 4 with GNOME, only for test). She could not even find the firefox…
7. By:Todd Longfellow

   November 29, 2005 7:09 pm

   I tried an older version of Red Hat and Gnome. I didn't care much for either. I'm not saying that RH is not a good distro, but I much prefer SuSE. I have versions going back to 6. As for the desktop, from a developer's point of view, KDE wins hands down over Gnome. I will also add as an ex-Windows junkie, KDE is easier for the Linux convert to understand and use. I think making Gnome the default desktop is a tactical mistake, but then I am just an end uers…
8. By:Birger Kollstrand

   November 30, 2005 7:41 am

   It is facinating to read all these comments. I am a KDE user my self and have been for a few years. Both personally and coporately in my job.

   From my professional view I can clearly accept that Novell goes down the Gnome road. Tha will mean that they loos some customers, but it will sharpen their focus. Which might help Linux as such.

   From our point of view it would imply that we probably would change to another distribution when the next upgrade is taking place in the company. We use Kontact extensively, we use Qt for our own development and all users are used to KDE and it is easier for Windows users to use KDE. (We are 50/50 win and lin)
   GTK is a joke on Windows compared to Qt. Qt/Trolltech gives us professional support and the ability to move code on almost all platforms availabele if we need to. Who was talking about eas in the SMB market? If you can not afford a Qt license…… Then make a nice buisiness model on support in stead of licenses.

   Now I realy hope that the upgrade from one version to the next is not adding the Gnome as default….

   Regards Birger….
9. By:Leon van Bakel

   November 30, 2005 8:32 pm

   Dear Novell, Your choice to have Gnome as default can probably benefit on short term. I can imagine that and I can also understand a company's search (or even urge) for revenue. But PLEASE PLEASE CLEAR YOUR VISION! With Suse+KDE you have absolute GOLD in your hands! Why? Because Suse+KDE is currently the only distro that can seriously compete with Windows on the desktop. Yes, I know, Linux-server market is more interesting at this moment. There is no doubt however, that a massive switch from Windows to Linux is about to happen. Simply because millions of people (and fast-increasing) want that to happen and only a few ten-thousands of people (mainly in Redmond) don't. One more thing is sure: it's going to be Linux with KDE, not with Gnome. Regardless of the distro! Don't give away your gold!! Consider a fork with Gnome focus if that really suits your shortterm goals. Or consider a light-weight KDE fork for servers. Or only NLD with Gnome (Which I hope not), not Suse. Or any other creative solution. If you feel the urge to choose between either desktops for future releases, choose KDE and help to improve performance (the main argument pro Gnome) and help to improve intuitiveness, consistence and integration to conquer Windows users. Never -NEVER!- give up Suse+KDE!! Yes, I know you only stated a change of default desktop but everyone understands that this means change of focus and thus less integration and less development efford.

   Apart from the fact that KDE is just better (in so many ways) than Gnome, there are other reasons why this is a bad dicision. First of all, the KDE prominence is the major point of distinct next to Redhat. KDE is one of the major reasons to choose Suse over Redhat. Wiping that face away means eliminating arguments to choose Suse. Of course, a few Gnome-preferring companies and governments could choose Suse then, but that is not very likely because Redhat already has the Gnome name-and-fame. Let them! Don't try to lick up a few spilled drops there! Choose your own distinct direction and emphasize the numerous benefits (and work on the few disadvantages). Secondly, this major decision of direction change is very destructive in itself. Despite your attempts to let the announcement look not so very major, the whole IT-community will experience it as major! You become very difficult to trust when you suddenly make such direction changes and I experienced the consequences of that as explained next.

   A company that I work for was considering Linux on about 310 desktops in stead of a new Windows version. I was one of the initiative takers and member of the workgroup. After comparing distro's, KDE and Gnome, we decided to do an extensive pilot with Suse+KDE. Your announcement to use Gnome as default, forced the majority of the workgroup to vote for stopping the pilot and upgrade to the next Windows! So that became the decision! I could almost cry!

   Do you have any idea of the potential of Suse+KDE?? If you let this gold fall, others will definitely pick it up and within, let's say, about 5 years, you will understand the protests on your decision and see how others are making huge profits using your golden concept!

   Please, restrict the damage already done and tell the world that you will keep on focussing on KDE for Suse ('supporting' is NOT convincing AT ALL!). I predict that when you boost the development of KDE, you will speedup the process of replacing Windows with Suse in home and enterprise. As a user of Suse+KDE I can confirm (regrettably) that it is still far more easy to get things done in Windows. I mean: being productive as an enduser. And I excluded learning time in this statement. But as long as the development rate is high enough, I don't worry about that too much. The availability of a download for Suse was a great step because lots of people are willing to give it a try now and Suse+KDE will gain familiarity rapidly which will speedup the acceptance for sure.

   Dear Novell, you are on top of the edge right now! Don't slide back! Don't cripple your baby before it even reached it's adolescence! Clear your mind, look a bit furher into the future, listen to your users! Come to reason! Be confident and radiate that! Stick to your golden concept! Stick to Suse+KDE! (No, I'm not a pastor, not even a marketeer, just an enthusiastic computer user).
   Regards, Leon
10. By:MIlan Zimmermann

    December 22, 2005 7:10 am

    Fire the decision Maker. Stupid Business Decition at it's Best.

    Let us be clear: Whoever made or approved this decision should be fired, because it makes absolutely no business sense.

    It is one classic mistake. SuSE's success was built on KDE. Their customers were buying SuSE instead of RedHat based on the fact SuSE is nicer, because it's KDE. (What exactly was the other differentiator?) Now Novell are destroying that trust, brand and love.

    It is like a company building cars suddenly decides to start building bicycles. Talk about going back in time also. And do not pretend thew car line will be well-supported.

    For me personally, shame for having recomended SuSE to people who will have to switch. I was buing each new SuSE version, now am going to have look at alternatives. Anyone has a suggestion apart from Mandriva and Kubuntu?

    Bye Novell, soon bye to my Novell shares and to Novell shareholders: your managers are really great, smart business people – NO.
11. By:x-men

    December 22, 2005 9:10 am

    Ye good olde Evolution, so stable, so cool, so Novell

    http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=324816 http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=324509 http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=321884 http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312106 http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=307513
12. By:marcus

    January 2, 2006 2:24 am

    Novell should ask itself:
    1) What was it about SuSE that made it so attractive to want to buy it?
    2) Does it make sense to piss that up against the wall and become a clone of your major competitor?

    If it aint broke, dont fix it!!!
13. By:Jim

    January 30, 2006 11:53 pm

    Yes, maybe KDE makes money but do you blame novell for not wanting to continue to pour all its money into it if the technology behind it has licensing issues?

    or am i not understanding this?
    please let me know if i am wrong.
14. By:Mariusz Potocki

    February 16, 2006 5:17 pm

    There is no way I'm sticking with Linux now. KDE is the reason people choose to migrate from Windows. Gnome is plain ugly and doesn't have any interesting features. There's no reason to stick with this ultra-geek Desktop. Most people hate GNOME's 1994-like look & feel. And you can't blame them. Why aren't there XGL videos showing off KDE? When I look at those GNOME screenshots I can't help but vomit. It's that ugly. It's not even close to KDE or Mac OS X. The first thing my girlfriend asked me when she saw XGL in action was "When will KDE learn to do stuff like that?". "I'm afraid it's gnome-only for now" – I replied. "Yuck" – is what she said to that.

    Novell, please, for God's sake stick with KDE before it's not too late for Linux! There's no way people will abandon Windows for Gnome! It's like stepping backwards!
15. By:Doug

    February 16, 2006 6:58 pm

    Well as a very new linux user I believe that Novel has based its decision to go with Gnome on the very reason posted above , The ease to learn and less options to learn. If your teching people for a few days a new system in a class room environment you want a Distro thats simple and easy to manage, does'nt have to many horns and whistles so the new trainee can e-mail, and open doccuments in a couple swift click and dosen't get lost on the options page.
    Most of the anger comes from people who are linux experts, I understand you pain, my guess is Novell is trying to compe up with a quick and dirty training program for new employee's and probably has doccumentation to prove the learning curve is much faster with gnome, if your selling software to companies for function and eas of use with low budget training curves gnomes fits.
    Doug
16. By:Aslan

    February 21, 2006 2:10 pm

    > I believe that Novel has based its decision
    > to go with Gnome on the very reason posted
    > above, The ease to learn and less options to
    > learn.

    Well it also means that the audience needs to learn more about BugZilla then. To report all the million of bugs found in GNOME and GNOME-Applications. Even small stuff don't work reliable enough to have people get their crappy work done. GNOME is a feature and plattform mess.
17. By:Cristian Rodriguez

    March 11, 2006 11:07 pm

    I think this is the bad decision.

    KDE is much superior to GNOME in ALL aspects.

    This move will not help the Linux Desktop adoption.
18. By:josh

    March 14, 2006 6:52 am

    the day when KDE will disappear ill blame to NOVELL and put in a trash can my Linux, so ill use maybe BSD as my UNIX, or BETTER still being a Windows USER so KEEP MY KDE ALIVE KDE AND GNOME CAN BE BOTH LINUX IS FREE FOR CHOICE YOUR DESKTOP SUSE WAS FOR KDE
19. By:Prakash Jose Kokkattu

    May 4, 2007 1:04 am

    THank U novell for supporting GNOME-GNU's Pioneer project.
    GNOME is easy for me and many millions of users.kde -i tried liking it but it sux.also it is backed and made by trolltech and uses qt library instead of gtk2.I like gtk2 apps.qt creates problems for me.so even no qt apps in my Debian and Ubuntu.
20. By:john

    May 28, 2007 9:25 am

    I use Xandros 4 Pro, which means I paid for my Linux and use KDE. I also try other distros (on old computers or as a live CD). Gnome gives the impression of being sparce and, yes, simpler to use. That said, the Xandros desktop is very Windows-like and is an almost identical user experience.

    People who are interested in operating systems are not, I fear, the best people to judge the experience of people who just want to get work done on a computer. I showed someone a clean Gnome desktop, and the first thing they said was,"Oh, there are two bars. Windows only has one bar." Removing the top bar and putting the windows list on the bottom bar changed their perception.

    Anyway, isn't it supposed to be about choice? Most of the above comments make it sound like a war, in which one desktop must triumph at the expense of the other. With (Linux) friends like these, who needs Microsoft?
21. By:Ross Lunsford

    July 2, 2007 2:07 pm

    I am the IT manager at a small but technically sophisticated company. I have installed openSUSE 10.2 on some new servers. People are blown away by both the Gnome and KDE interfaces. They are both literally interchangable and the choice devolves to user preference. I assure you neither KDE nor GNOME is being slighted in any way. Both interfaces are very polished on this distribution.

    I should point out an extremely important advantage of this distro – it's trivial to use Active Directory for authentication, and it's bulletproof. I have people processing enormous TIFF files from Windows clients over Samba with Winbind, and have had many comments on how transparent everything is and how much performance has improved over serving from Windows. I can have a fully functioning, patched SuSE 10.2 server authenticating against AD with only root as local user, in half a work day. SuSE 10.2 is by far the best distribution around. It just works.

    -drl
22. By:Levi Morrison

    August 13, 2007 3:19 pm

    http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-list/2003-November/msg00039.html

    Read that. As far as qt vs gtk, I really think they are evenly matched, each with pros and cons. The above URL isn't the best or necessarily reliable, but it gives a quick approach to it.

    I like both GNOME and KDE, although I tend to prefer KDE for desktop, GNOME for servers. When I made the change from Microsoft to Linux, I defaulted to GNOME. It was simply the default environment on both distros I tried. Then I found Ubuntu/Kubuntu. I learned the linux way in KDE, but when I went back to GNOME, I loved it more. I still change which environments I use; I like them both.

    As for GNOME vs KDE on openSUSE, again they seemed matched. Will they stay matched? I doubt it; if they default to GNOME, then they will focus more on GNOME. It's as simple as that.
23. By:Marco Delgado

    October 11, 2007 10:19 pm

    KDE to the end! No matter who tells the opposite, even Novell