Cool Solutions

GroupWise Next…… What we are working on!


December 9, 2008 4:14 pm





First of all some updates on our plans for Hot Patches, Support Packs and such.

This information is part of our overall road map discussions that we have at GWAVACon, the EMEA Summit and other major events. These are general guidelines and are subject to change, but this is our general plan.

– We plan to release 7.0.3 HP2 within the next 60-90 days.
– We plan to release 8.0.0 HP1 within the next 60-90 days, if necessary.
– We plan to release 8.0.1 in the first half of 2009
– We plan to release 7.0.4 during the second half of 2009 and we will release another 7.0.3 HP, if necessary. We are currently hoping that 7.0.4 can be the final support pack for GroupWise 7, but that is still to be determined. Product life cycles indicate that it might.

We are also working on a mobility solution, a 3rd Party integration solution (which may include the mobility solution), Exchange Gateway update, Exchange Migration Utility and GMS 3.0 AND In additon, we are working on the next major releases of GroupWise – code named Windermere and Monterrey.

– We are also working on Teaming + Conferencing deliverables – Boulder is the next major release of Teaming and we are discussing time lines and final feature sets. A lot of Boulder is already designed and coded, but we are evaluating if there are other things that need to be included.

Novell is also engaged in a few ‘Research and Development’ projects that deal with new ‘user interaction’ metaphors, new deployment metaphors and new collaboration markets. These projects have the potential of influencing and enabling some of our own evolutionary steps with GroupWise and Teaming + Conferencing and may provide opportunities for additional collaboration products, components or ideas.

I have met with several of our partners over the last several months and our partner community is very active and very bullish on the future of GroupWise, T+C and Collaboration. There are new products and solutions coming from our current partner community and several new partners are also launching products or preparing to launch products. I will highlight a few of these as they get closer to public announcements and authorize my ‘blogging’. 🙂

Currently, we are spending our time evaluating issues/bugs for 8.0 SP1 and 7.0.3 HP2. We are beginning to design several new features and flush out many of our ideas around Administration. We are working on some Unicode loose ends. We plan to move the Exchange migration utility from Public BETA to Shipping. We also plan to move GMS 3.0 for Windows to Shipping and GMS 3.0 for Linux to Public BETA. We are doing post-mortems on our Authorized BETA program, the Bonsai release and any ‘sharpening the saw’ type of activities. These are all in an effort to improve with each release, product and schedule. We are heavily engaged in Boulder. As many of you may know, we recently expanded the engineering for this product in Provo, Utah. We are more tightly integrating Teaming with GroupWise and Conferencing with GroupWise. Some of this work will expand beyond Boulder, but many next steps are in play.

We are also working on a few events – BrainShare of course is coming up soon! Please register – this BrainShare seems like it is going to be BIG for GroupWise/T+C/Collaboration as well as for Novell. GWAVACon Las Vegas is in January and we hope to see many of our customers there as well as at BrainShare. GWAVACon will have Novell representatives for GroupWise, T+C, OES and Zen – so very exciting! It will give our customers a small taste of what BrainShare will be like and provide you a lot of great content, valuable interactions and unique opportunities to meet with Novell Partners and Novell employees. Alex Evans, Product Manager, Travis GrandPre, GroupWise Marketing Manager and myself will be just a few of the Novell people that will be in attendance at both events.

The ‘end of year’ activities are many and keep us all busy. I want to wish you all a very Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays! I look forward to the new year and building this community even more in 2009!

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  1. By:FlyingGuy

    But! There is always a but ya know….

    What about integration with windows apps? Are you unclear that you are losing market share every day that the big hitters find it difficult and onerous to include GroupWise as one of the platforms they support for integrating e-mail and scheduling?

    How can you not understand this??

    Do you really think T + C is going to make one scintilla of difference to a large vendor or customer who’s business application dominates their infrastructure,?

    I don’t mean to sound or be rude, bar are you totally and completely clueless?

    Guess what? Novell just lost yet another customer. A prestigious accounting firm in silicon valley because main driving application suite will not integrate with GroupWise. I tried every trick in the book to keep them a Novell customer, but the bottom line is that we could not make their main application work with the level of integration they could get with Outlook.

    Do you get this?

    T + C may have some traction is a few places, but let me tell you something, you might be winning a few battles but you are losing the war. Stop devoting resources to something that is a maybe and get those resources onto getting GW back on the main stage, get the API’s cleaned up, get the management interface cleaned up.

    Tell us about what you are planning in Monterey?

    Is GW Messenger just goin to be left to die? If it is then open source it NOW or tell us it is going to be updated please because there are lots of organizations that like it, that you it, because it has such a small footprint on both the client and the server side unlike T+C which takes a browser and a bloated apache/tomcat server to maintain, JUST to have chat.

    In short get your act together. This is a world of business, and businesses, like it or not, want all their applications to integrate.

    • By:dlythgoe

      I know it was very subtle in my post, but I did mention it. We are working on a 3rd Party Integration solution/story. As Bill clearly stated, this is the number one issue facing GroupWise today and we absolutely recognize it and are very engaged in building/evaluating/acquiring/partnering in able to address this very important opportunity. We realize it also requires a robust API story and that is part of our solution and thinking.

      I simply can’t be more forthcoming right now about that until it is further along. There are very real constraints to what I am able to talk about and what level of detail I can reveal.

      Sorry 🙂


      • By:Anonymous

        Original Post:
        “We are also working on a mobility solution, a 3rd Party integration solution (which may include the mobility solution), Exchange Gateway update, Exchange Migration Utility and GMS 3.0 and we are working on the next major releases of GroupWise – code named Windermere and Monterrey. ”

        The first time I read this, I thought you were saying that the 3rd Party Integration Solutions and Exchange stuff were going to be in “the next major releases of GroupWise”, which means “GroupWise 9 or 10” to the mere mortal reader.

        If it means something else, please be more specific.

      • By:dlythgoe

        Thanks for the feedback! I have ‘edited’ my post and added some emphasis and some clarification. I hope that makes it a little more clear.


    • By:Anonymous

      … and it’s not restricted to GroupWise.

      If they “got it”, GroupWise would be manageable from iManager.

      If the “got it”, they would have canned ZENworks packages to deploy GroupWise Clients, Client32 and other Novell products.

      If they “got it” they would not have gutted eDirectory connectivity from ZENworks.

      If they “got it” they would not make their legacy NetWare users have to figure out everything all over again in SLES. Example: dsrepair – you had to build utilities when you integrated eDirectory into Linux, why throw away what you had? Please keep the existing look-and-feel, keep the existing commands, screens, etc.

      Here’s a Clue-by-Four: Keep things familiar, make at least your own products work together, and make it easy for your customers to use your products. That includes existing customers.

  2. By:jsauve

    Hey Dean,

    This all great news!! I personally have two requests concerning what you wrote:

    1) Being a Mac user, I would love to see improvements in the Mac client, perhaps moving to a native Mac interface. OS X has one of the most beautiful graphical environments around, so let’s make Groupwise look just as good! (But in all fairness, the Groupwise 8 Mac client is GREAT – I live in it all day!)

    2) For Teaming, once the new version is released, you need to make sure that the «upgrade» or migration of existing installations will be as smooth as possible! Some of my customers are putting – or will be – a lot of data in those systems. I don’t think anybody will want to re-enter all of that stuff!

    My two cents’ worth!


    • By:Anonymous

      Hi Jacques!

      We have considered a native Mac client and/or a native Linux Client. However, the difficulty is that we would rather think about having fewer clients. It is very expensive and time consuming to continue to recreate the same features for several clients and interfaces. There are reasons to do this of course and sometimes those business drivers outweigh the costs. We have thought about creating a new client that was cross platform – but as you know – that is usually the least common denominator for all platforms and none of them are ‘best of breed’ or native. We currently do not have a native Mac client in our upcoming roadmap. However, we evaluate this often and may consider it at some point.

      Good feedback on Teaming – upgrades should be simple. There are not any major architectural changes planned for Boulder – so in theory – this should be pretty smooth. However, it still requires some QA work before I can confidently state that is exactly how it is going to be or what issues you may need to be aware of. Smooth upgrades is absolutely part of our plan.


      • By:FlyingGuy

        Not having a product?

        Java is slow, clunky, funky and a blasted pain in the @#$ and you know it. So go ahead, keep foisting a Java based client on Linux and Mac users that is not feature for feature the same as the Windows Client., You go right on ahead. Make sure your resume is up to date while you are at it, because at some point they will simply start to ignore GW more then they have already and then you can get a job at another company.

      • By:Anonymous

        I realize that blogs and forums are tools that people use to voice their frustrations. My experience has been that the vast majority in this community demonstrate a certain level of decorum. I attempt to always respond in a professional, courteous, and respectful manner.

        Although many readers of this blog may understand the ins/outs of Java – the vast majority of our users have no idea or care. They simply want a product that has the features they need to be productive. With very few exceptions, the GroupWise 8 Linux/Mac client has been met with raving reviews. Lots of great features, improved performance and better stability – amazing since it was built using Java!

        The cost of starting over again to build yet more clients may not be the best solution. Our goal is to provide users the same or similar experience with GroupWise no matter what platform they are using. I believe we have made significant progress in this area with GroupWise 8!

        In addition, no one seems to be ignoring GroupWise. Everyday I respond to more and more interest from customers, press, analysts, partners,competitors and 3rd-party integrators.

        Thanks for offering me a job! 🙂 However, I really like the one I got!


      • By:FlyingGuy


        I guess it is a very different view from on high then it is in the trenches.

        I loaded up an entire GW 8 system in a SLES box. Sorry it looks a like a remnant .

        As to you answer for people using windows 2000. You are relying on IE?! I thought we went through this over a year ago! There are LOTS and LOTS of html rendering engines out there that are x-platoform and WebKit is one of the better ones. Chrome seems to do just fine, as does Safari and I think even Mozilla is going to go WebKit soon or that is the scuttle, why on earth are you locking the windows client ( by far the best look and feel and functionality ) into IE?!

        Just bring in something like WebKit would get you over half way there. Yes there are some arguments about GTK over Qt but a lot of them are trivial, so pick one or the other for *nix. And as another poster mentioned OSX has the best looking user interface there is, so why cripple the Mac client. I am sorry Dean, but it is just not that hard to seperate the engine from the display.


        Decorum is one thing, but when those of us who have been doing the “Big Red Box” for years see you guys doing things that are in our minds are just blatantly unwise, and we tell you so, and then you continue to do those things, and we tell you so again, ever after the results of your first foray have shown those actions to be unwise, we get to the point when we begin to lose patience AND customers.

        We see great applications that have given us real traction ( GW Messenger ) being left to die in favor of something that will of course provide the same functionality, but the cost to implement requires larger hardware expenditure on the backend, more training, more workstation horsepower, we have to ask ourselves, do these people in Provo have a clue? I mean give me one single reason why I would want to implement T+C to have a simple messenger client?

        I did my first CompSurf and WSGen lets see, 21 years ago at Stanford University when Novell was HUGE in that institution. Go to Stanford now, there is not a single Novell product on the campus that I know of, it is all Windows all the time or Sun and a lot of some flavor on *nix.

        Better yet, try getting a job with Novell on your resume. That use to be pretty much all it took, you were employable, you were marketable. Not any more, you better have MCSE on there or you are going to find jobs pretty hard to get.

        There are still quite a few institutions using GroupWise but most of them are running on Windows Servers. I go to client after client where new employee’s come to work and almost to a single one their question is, “How come I don’t have Exchange, it works with my ( PDA Flavor of the week ), I have it on my Laptop ) etc. etc.

        You guys have to turn this around. At this point it is ( almost ) impossible, but you still have a chance. MS fumbled Vista but they are not going to fumble the next version unless something really really goes wrong, but you can’t count on that. The next version of GroupWise has to be lean and mean, it has to be lightning fast, it has to launch in under 10 seconds. The API’s have to be rationalized across ALL platforms no matter what.

        The API’s have to be squeaky clean, they have to be re-built so its a single function call for an application to send, delete or recall an mail, it has to be a single function call for an application to create a calender item, or to delete it or modify it. The “Trusted Application” interface was a brilliant stroke, you have to build on it, evangelize it, you have to build demo apps that really sing, that show other development houses how EASY it is to integrate with GroupWise.

        You have to cut deals with Dell, with HP with Lenovo to get the GW Client pre-installed. You need to built in an update mechanism so that the client will have the ability to go and get the latest security Patches. If there is no GW server to talk to, you have to make the thing just fire up with a wizard to connect people to their favorite POP or IMAP server. You have to do it in an intrusive yet un-intrusive manner.

        If no one else will build it, YOU have to build the Sync Engine. It has to be bullet proof. I don’t care if it means it puts some other company out of business, you MUST have this base functionality. If you build it you have to get all these PDA and phone manufacturers on-board. You have to, you have to, you have to.

        And to quote someone who we all love to hate, “It’s the Developers” these people needs the tools to do the job.

        I am getting a little scattered here, but you get the point. We have to get a fire lit under GW that makes the last firestorm to run through the Angeles National Forest look like a Cub Scout weenie roast.

      • By:dlythgoe


        I enjoyed your post. These are all topics we have discussed and shared many times. I wish I did have a view from on high – look beside you brother – here I am – in the trenches – just like you and the rest of the community. I realize that your comments are focused at Novell and what you would to see Novell do. Its just that ‘I am Novell’ in this context and the one who is responding.

        I would like to be able to do all of the things you suggest. I really do not have an significant push back on your ideas and suggestions. We may have a difference of opinion on ‘how’ to do those things or how much effort those things are or even the value of each of your ideas. Those are all good discussions and healthy ones to have.

        I know that me saying things do not make them true or make them come to pass. I wish I could at least communicate that we ‘hear’ you and have ‘heard’ you. I would love to snap my fingers, click my heels and make things perfect and magically deliver all of the things you ask.

        Your task list is impressive. Impressive because it is extensive and impressive because it matches many of the things we are already working on or plan to work on. Things…like a sync engine, like an API story, like agreements with vendors, like performance, like innovation, like adminstration, etc.

        I realize that people forget very quickly all of the things we have done that they asked for and conveniently remember the things we still have not delivered. Nature of the business… good problem to have!


      • By:ukrause

        I totally agree to have a most common base to serve all OS. It is in my personal interst as a Mac User to unify all the clients with their functions as fast as possible. Regarding the comment on Java: I guess you really never ever read a book about Java. If you configure your JVM right it is fast and stable. I first would like to advice to FlyingGuy to read a book about good behaviour and the next a book about Java.
        The Novell Guys did a good Job on GW8, even if we all see some more todo. I totally agree with the need for Integrations. It would be very helpful if Novell could get the large suppliers of so called standard software to integrate with GroupWise. But it is also a thing for partners. We also have customers with different integration needs. We simply act on their demands and use the existing API (which are not to bad by the way) and do some programming – so we got some furtune and the customer is satisfied with a new integration.

      • By:elarsson


        I think what you’ve done with GW 8 XPlat client is great. It still isn’t 100% there with feature and performance parity but in fairness to Novell it is further along than your competitors–having looked at the feature anemic and slow MS Entourage for Exchange or IBM’s slow Eclipse-based client for Notes.

        Nevertheless, I know my Mac users still won’t be satisfied. The feedback I’ve heard suggest that no client which tries to duplicate the Windows client is going to satisfy–they’d rather just use their native OS X applications. I am curious if you have looked at doing an iSync connector or other such technology which would allow Mac users to use their native iCal, OS X Address Book, and applications?

        I would think an iSync connector is significantly less development effort than trying to build a Mac client from the ground up (and consequently be porting over a Windows UI and Windows metaphors that Mac users may not necessarily want…)

      • By:fabwhack1

        iSync sounds good to me. Where do I sign? :/

      • By:ecyoung

        It’s been rumored, and finally confirmed today, that Macs will get a full Outlook client.

        Oh, and it’s being built on Cocoa, not Java…

        Luckily, there’s plenty of time for Novell to take note and react (Office 2010 for Mac is more than a year off).

  3. By:Anonymous


    What is the status of having a 3rd party partner such as Tumblweed to provide desktop validation for Department of Defense certs through Groupwise? Tumbleweed only supports Exchange and Lotus Notes. We are being forced to switch to Microsoft Exchange due to this issue. The govt/military is moving in this direction. Maybe this isn’t your target audience so I guess we will be forced to move to Exchange.


    • By:Anonymous

      We are looking at providing a more robust platform/solution for integrating these types of things. Unfortunately, I can’t say too much about it right now. In fact, the blog to watch will be Alex Evans – Product Manager.


  4. By:Anonymous

    Thanks for the updates on the planned releases and what is in the cooking pot, it always helps when forward planning solutions.

    Looking forward to the stuff you can’t tell us about yet!

  5. By:Anonymous

    I love the way Zenworks Configuration Manager work. Only need a LDAP connection to the eDir og MAD users.

    Make GroupWise work the same way. No need for eDir. It should support eDir, MAD or any other LDAP source. Even only a local database.

  6. By:Anonymous


    I’am not alone with W2Y PCs with specific apps. So we can’t change and we are not ready to migrate to SLED or XP today but we want to use GW8 client ! It was OK with the betas but now ? I don’t understand.

    Thanks, Bruno

    • By:Anonymous

      There are several reasons that we chose not to support Windows 2000. The first and most obvious is that that Microsoft has ended support for it. It is a difficult message to tell our customers that Novell will support their products on operating systems that are not supported by their own manufacturer. In addition, having more operating systems to support means that we continue to grow our testing matrix – which is expensive and very time consuming.

      Another major reason that we do not support Windows 2000 with GroupWIse 8 is that GroupWise 8 relies on operating system components that are not available on Windows 2000. Versions of IE, which we use for HTML rendering and Web Panels, versions of Windows Common Controls, etc. We could have made multiple builds, one for Windows 2000 and one for Windows XP/Vista, but once again, we had to weigh the cost and it was simply too expensive. Having multiple code bases to support/build/test on operating systems that are no longer supported by the industry simply does not make good business sense. It was definitely a trade off.



  7. By:Anonymous

    It looks like we’re going to have to implement AD in the near future and IDM password sync isn’t looking very promising due to the myriad technical glitches with the installation(s). Any chance of GW authenticating directly against AD (via LDAP) in the near future?

    I have to say that the demise of GMS plus the inability to authenticate against AD has me nearly convinced to migrate to Exchange.

    • By:Anonymous

      I understand the frustration with GMS. However, it is important that you understand that Novell/GroupWise know the importance of having a mobility story and we will resolve this. We are about to release GMS 3.0 – so no one should feel like they were “left holding the bag”.

      We are looking at making GroupWise ‘directory’ agnostic. Not sure what this will take, but if you remember, GroupWise began its days without the reliance on any directory – so in theory this is not too hard to go backwards.

      I will have to consult some other experts before I have a trustworthy answer about your authentication question. Send me an email offline.


      • By:shutchinson

        I’m OK with making GW “Directory Agnostic” – just please don’t make it Athiestic ~ by which I mean, please retain directory integration, but allow the Customer to choose which Directory.

        Please leave eDirectory integration intact as-is, and add iManager Support.

        Add similar AD integration, including the ability to manage through existing Windows tools.

        Add integration with any other major platform Directories your Customers use, again, using or mimicking their Management Tools.

        Just please, please, PLEASE don’t go back to the pre-GW 5 model of a completely separate Management Tool, completely independant User Names, User Information, etc. ~ unless the Customer has no existing Directory available. Novell’s solution to a lack of Directory in the past was to provide an eDirectory License (effectively ~ with GW 5 they provided a 2-user NW 4.11 license, which supported NDS, now called eDirectory).

        Thank You, in advance.

    • By:sveld

      “Any chance of GW authenticating directly against AD (via LDAP) in the near future?”

      See support TID10070752

  8. By:skapanen

    Still waiting for the release of GMS3, which has been in beta since summer?!?
    What is the schedule with this?


    • By:dlythgoe

      I realize the wait has been long, there simply were too many QA issues to work through before we felt confident to release it.

      GMS 3.0.1 for Windows will be released within the next few weeks. In addition, GMS 3.0.1 for Linux will enter Public BETA about the same time.


  9. By:stideswe

    Hello Dean

    This is quite an entertaining blog. I hope Novell will learn from the feedback, they seriously need to if they wish to say in business. Here’s my contribution.

    Novell has limited resources (in terms of developers and QA testers). Don’t waste your time on things that don’t matter. The way GroupWise administration works may not suit some but who cares, the administrator will cope, it is not a hot issue for me? Likewise the Mac & Linux client, who cares, nobody is really deploying Linux desktops so why worry? Also don’t be tied to the concerns of old NetWare dinosaurs. NetWare is dead – thank God – ditch it and stop wasting resources developing for it. Also Linux is not NetWare, thank God, it is new and different, thank God, any administrator should welcome the change and be willing to learn – it ain’t that hard, if you can’t learn some new tricks and convert to Linux then you should leave IT and leave it to those with more flexible minds.

    The pain points for GroupWise (of highest priority) are product defects – product defects are something Novell has developed a reputation for that is very damaging. I even have end-users joke about all Novell code being “beta” due to how buggy and unreliable it is – that is really sad. The defects are usually client-related (the back-end is rock solid).

    The other pain points are mobility (iPhone etc) which could be fixed by making an Active-Sync & SyncML gateway for GroupWise – just as you have finally implemented ICAL (after lots of pain). The other pain point is third party integration – you have done the right thing by developing a SOAP gateway, you should also improve the client API’s. Why not drop the GroupWise client and focus on Outlook integration and also Evolution integration? Let someone else develop the client – you should just concentrate on an excellent feature rich, standards-compliant back-end. SOAP and porting to Linux are the real successes of the last few years of GroupWise, make GroupWise more open, expose the API’s, expose the back-end through SOAP more and more, focus on the back-end and learn from Outlook, users seem to like it so just give them what they want and save the effort of maintaining your own client software.

    Also stop talking about improving GroupWise and just bloody improve it. Perhaps you need to survey customers and decide what to do next and just do it? Novell are always well regarded by customers in how they are open to feedback, but for flip’s sake act on the feedback and do something before time runs out.


    BTW Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

    • By:FlyingGuy

      As I see it, your points are mostly valid.

      I must confess you accusations of being and “Old NetWare Dinosaur” is well, beyond the pale.

      Linux is not the end all be all. I have said many times before that Linux is a GREAT application server, but without something like NDS that is all it is. OES aka ( NOWS) makes Linux actually useful is a small business environment for something other then a gateway and something to run a mail server on.

      NetWare does all of the above and more, so mind your P’s and Q’s.

      Administration of the GW system is a PITA w/C1 I agree which is why we need a better tool. Is iManager a better tool? Not in my opinion, it is big, bloated and relies on FAR to many software layers just to the same thing that NWAdmin did and does and C1 did and does rather poorly and most of that rest sqaurely at the feet of Java. I have nothing against a web interface for this sort of thing, but they need to be small and fast fast fast.

      Dropping the GW Client would be absolutely foolish and more then likely somewhat suicidal for Novell. NO ONE buys a backend unless it is a utility like Oracle, MS-SQL or things of that nature. To drop the GW client and just do Exchange Integration would mean losing a lot of utility and lessen the value of the backend.

      Sorry, but Evolution is a “Not Ready for Prime Time Player”. It is clunky, has a myriad of problems and I am talking about the latest version. I have tried to make it work several times, every time I am disappointed with unexpected crashes to only then not be able to re-launch it without hitting some curt and mystical error message as it crashes again and again. Also using SOAP makes it slow, slow, slow.

      SOAP… Ah yes the interface that promises to solve all things. I find an interface where the overhead of transport logic to actual data is > 100 to 1 to be pretty much worthless as a programming interface. SOAP has its strengths but implemented based on HTML and XML is just hideous:

      I much prefer:

      select Count(*) from messages where status = UNREAD”

      Select MessageID, MessageSender, MessageDateTime, MessageSubj from messages where status = UNREAD

      to the 1 to 5 hundred lines of HTML and XML one has to create to be able to do the same thing. Obviously I agree with you about the API’s they are in desperate need of help.

      As to your last paragraph, I could not agree more. It just needs to happen.

  10. By:Magic31

    Hi Dean,

    Sorry if this is not the correct place to ask..
    In the forums I’ve seen some posts suggesting HP1 should be arriving soon… any word on this and the ETA?

    We have two customers running GW 8 already.. happy, though there are some small issues. Others are waiting for the first patches to be released before taking the plunge.

    Thanks for any info,


    P.s. Have you swung by the White House yet to show them what GW 8 can do? Might be a good moment… 😉