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What’s the Biggest GWIM System You Know of?



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April 14, 2008 4:30 pm

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I am busy researching a few things and setting future direction for GroupWise Instant Messenger. What I need to know from all of you out there in the real world is the largest GWIM system that you know of.

What I need specifically are things like:

Total Number of Provisioned Users
Max Number of Users Logged in
Max Number of Simultaneous Conversations

Feel free to email me offline, or in my CoolSolutions account. I will be using this information to make decisions on our Unified Communications strategy.

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18 Comments

  1. By:kennonk

    T+C is a good start. Consolidate on an open source protocol that supports modern IM features like Jabber and stick a fork in GWIM it’s done.

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    • By:EnviroTO

      I agree. When Google decided to create GoogleTalk they didn’t reinvent the wheel, they used Jabber. T+C has the right protocol and GWIM has the right tie-ins with Groupwise and OES/eDirectory.

      In my opinion ideally:
      1. The openfire server with SSL (or similar open source Jabber server) should be included in SLES and available as a free download for Windows with the ability to authenticate to LDAP.
      2. OES would provide LDAP and eDirectory for the IM server.
      3. Groupwise would build on that base by adding a specialized Groupwise Messenger Client which uses Jabber as the IM protocol but ties into Groupwise features such as the Contact list (but Pidgin could also work against the same server without the additional features tying into Groupwise).
      4. T+C would add more IM features by tying into the T+C integration that exists now and would also work with any Jabber enabled client including the Jabber enabled Groupwise Messenger.

      Four levels of IM support depending on an organizations needs using an open protocol.

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  2. By:FlyingGuy

    The largest GWIM system I administer is about 125 users, most of them babbling at each other through the day in a large non-profit in San Francisco. I have seen them have big meetings live on GWIM.

    GWIM, is a secure and contained IM system. The client is very lighweight, the server side is also very lightweight. The netware server it runs on, which is also running the entire GW system, including GWAVA4, never even bats an eye. It just runs. The GWIA very rarely hiccups and GWAVA occasionaly does, but I write both of those up to programmer error.

    Why on earth would I want to change to something that requires a server running an entire Java Stack, plus MYSQL, PLUS Apache, Plus Tomcat, just to have IM with something like T&C. I looked at T&C, sorry its nothing more then a cheesy version of Facebook mashed into a MySpace.

    Nothing, I repeat, NOTHING is in T&c at least as far as I have seen allows access to Enterprise resources, like your home directory, system printers, nothing, nada.

    T&C does NOTHING that GW + GWIM cannot do right now.

    But of course Novell will Sacrifice both on the alter of “Coolness”.

    I like open source as much as the next person, but there is room for closed source as well, and GWIM with its tiny (2.7 megs of ram) and very secure footprint, is superior. How much ram will your browser suck up when running a T&C session? My Guess is someplace around 30 megs).

    GroupWise could be the same, but we must sacrifice binary images that are for Windows, Linux and OS-X an the alter of JAVA, which has never even come close to fulfilling its promise of write it once, run it anywhere.

    Want to run it on platform X, uhmmm sorry we need to re-build it because we used the wrong set of jar libraries, oh and you need yet another JVM running on your machine, because we pushed in some code that ONLY works with JVM 3.3.4.2.1.6.7.89.4.3-build-3.1.2.5 or some other obscure nonsense. Stick a fork in Java, its done.

    You guys don’t want to support GWIM, then open source it and those of us that find it very valuable indeed, will make it even smaller, tighter, faster. I will bet you money that if you finally decide to get up off the SDK that I can write an X-Platform client, is pascal no less, that will be just as small just as fast and will perform perfectly on all of those platforms and have a better interface.

    Care to take me up on it?

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  3. By:kennonk

    I wasn’t specifically endorsing the entire T+C product but referring more to the fact that it incorporates an open source IM platform (pidgin) and protocol. GWMessenger has all the benefits you mentioned in your post but a protocol like Jabber has all those same ones plus the benefit of being improved by a large community of coders who are keeping it up to speed with all the latest IM feature sets. There is no good reason why Novell should continue to develop their own proprietary IM app in a void. Instead they can contribut to an existing open source alternative they would receive all the awesome work already done for them plus have the opportunity to contribute to another great project like the dozens of others they already reap big rewards from, like Gnome, Compiz, and Linux in general, Etc…Sorry if my first post came off as a T+C commercial. I didn’t mean it like that.

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    • By:FlyingGuy

      Lets take something that performs the job perfectly ( the user interface needs a little help, specifically adding users to your list, WHAT a kludge! ) and lets start making it do more, lets add this feature, lets add that feature, lets make it talk to AOL, Yahoo, ICQ, lets open it up to those virus & worm ridden networks so we can have machines getting crapped up left and right, and pretty soon it has a 30 meg footprint and takes 45 seconds to load while it loads up 50 or so DLL’s / Libs.

      At LOTS and LOTS of companies you can get fired for installing ( or even trying to install ) things like Yahoo IM, or AOL or any ICQ client made. You know why that is? Beside the fact hat it is not logged, they are the most insecure and invasive bits of software made. Run Kaspersky some time in paranoid mode and you get “Yahoo is attempting to inject code into pretty much everything, it tries to slam itself into your task bar, window bars, pretty much everything, its nothing but a disease vector, same with AOL and all the rest.

      Businesses do not need their users making VOIP phone calls over their IM software, you know who wants that? People who spend more time loading he latest whiz bang toy instead of doing what they are getting paid to do, not secretaries, not accountants, not you average line worker.

      This is the Microsoft trap. Keep stuffing features in until its an unrecognizable bloated POS that lost sight of its very simple job.

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      • By:fabwhack

        Well said sir. If you want multi-protocol and your IT policy allows it, there are applications like Adium that will talk to GroupWise and most other IM’s simultaneously. Leave GWIM basically as it is, keep enhancing the client but don’t give us another Tomcat/Apache nightmare. We daren’t invest in T&C, it’ll undoubtedly go the same way as GW Document Management, GW Workflows and Virtual Office.

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      • By:kennonk

        “lets make it talk to AOL, Yahoo, ICQ, lets open it up to those virus & worm ridden networks so we can have machines getting crapped up left and right, and pretty soon it has a 30 meg footprint and takes 45 seconds to load while it loads up 50 or so DLL’s / Libs.”

        It is this kind of misunderstanding that is most annoying. We are talking about a Protocol here NOT THE CLIENT. I can set up an internal only IM server using the jabber protocol in minutes that will run rings around GWMessenger in features and function. All of them can be enabled or disabled as needed. And it is internal only.

        “Businesses do not need their users making VOIP phone calls over their IM software, you know who wants that? People who spend more time loading he latest whiz bang toy instead of doing what they are getting paid to do, not secretaries, not accountants, not you average line worker.”

        I think some pretty major players like Cisco will beg to differ on that. Virtual presence, which is a major part of what IM is all about, is about communication. Whether it is VoIP on a phone, text IM chats, SMS, MMS, VoIP on a softphone or IM client etc…Workplace mobility is another huge factor to consider. We support more than just your “line workers” we support executives, engineers, field technicians, medical personnel, building inspectors, law enforcement just to name a few. These are people who need multiple means of communicating/sharing information to one another.

        The only real standout quality of GWMessenger is that there is a blackberry client. But then again so does Jabber.

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    • By:FlyingGuy

      it just gets all fouled up..

      Pidgin just forked. Fabulous!

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  4. By:johnefleming

    How do I find out the following:

    Max Number of Users Logged in
    Max Number of Simultaneous Conversations

    I currently have approx. 1200 provisioned users.

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  5. By:gurneetech

    Our system is about 225 users with 1/3 of them logged in at any given moment. With the low active user count, overhead is very small and administration time is smaller still.

    My boss and I were discussing the future of GWIM a few weeks ago. We discussed the idea that T+C might be the future of GWIM and how that would impact our direction with regard to another significant Novell product investment.

    We agreed that T+C does not have a place here. Aside from simply not fitting our business model, it is a costly product that currently does not integrate with the rest of our Novell suite with any real success.

    While I realize that ‘setting the future direction’ does not mean killing the product, I’d like to point out that GWIM’s strengths are its simplicity. Department call takers or reception people do not need a full collaboration suite to simply relay that packages have arrived. On the flip side they need to retain the capability to receive things like IM system broadcasts. The fact that it is not a fully open protocol is also a plus. It has given the different business group administrations a good feeling the product cannot be abused for ‘internet chat’

    I like FlyingGuy’s comments. If the product is to be discontinued, please open source it to allow for community development. I know we will continue to use the product for the foreseeable future, but little enhancements would be nice (more emoticons, tabbed chat windows, etc).

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  6. By:mprikril

    How do I find out the following:

    Max Number of Users Logged in
    Max Number of Simultaneous Conversations

    I currently have approx. 400 provisioned users.

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  7. By:dlee

    A few quick points

    - We have 750 users hammering GWIM.Installed on Windows 2003 R2

    - We were annoyed that remote chat was taken out of Zen 6

    - We were happy GWIM was part of the Zen Suite Bundle

    - We are not happy it has been left in the doldrums

    Where is …..

    - File Transfer
    - SIP
    - Extra emoticons
    - AD integration

    - We ABSOLUTELY DO NOT want T&C

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  8. By:wolstenp

    I’d like to see a openfire transport for GWIM. Is there a Java API for GWIM?

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  9. By:anonymous

    We have 2000 users that can access GWIM. Any where from 600-800 do accesses it daily. We expect more as they learn more about it.
    Not sure how to find out how what the maximum simultaneous conversations are.
    We are an educational system
    Most of the users hop off and on as needed. We have 60 technical support staff on all the time since they are cover the 90 sites we have and can report quickly any issue that arise.

    –Deb

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  10. By:anonymous

    We have 2000 users that can access GWIM
    Anywhere from 600-750 are logged in
    I have on idea how to find out the simultaneous conversations.

    Most of in the IT Dept love IM. Keeps us in touch and quickly can resolve any issues that come up with all the phone calls

    –slonakerd

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  11. By:Anonymous

    I work for a major university, every student staff and faculty is a provisioned user. The total comes to about 210,000!

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    • By:mcherry63

      Do you archive your GWIM sessions? I work for a large corporation and our security office wants IM archived. We need to find the cost of that before we move ahead. Any suggestions?

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  12. By:crivera

    Hi.
    Last year, we migrated a GroupWise 7 System with 3600 users.
    2900 users that can access GWIM, more or less.
    All the system (GroupWise 7 + GroupWise Messenger) are in a 8 nodes cluster with a 4 terabytes SAN (HP Eva).
    The customer is the main bank in the country.

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